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10.2.3 broke TNT :(
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01-13-2003 23:06

Posted by:
Holmes

Location:
Santa Rosa, Ca

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This is unrelated to the recent Quicktime bugs btw. A lot (probably 20% of the 45 reviewers on versiontracker) of users playing my game had perviously reported that keyboard input didn't work (though escape key worked). Now, after updating to 10.2.3 I find it doesn't work on my computer either.

Slightly frightened by this, I checked out my other games. Input did not work in those either. Then I checked the example code by you guys, input did not work in those either.

My hardware:

667mhz powerbook G4 (from october last year)
512MB RAM
DVD-ROM
10.2.3 (6G30)

01-13-2003 23:50

Posted by:
matteo

Location:
Venice, ITALY!

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you see?

You see? This is what happens to people that continue to update... Stick to your stuff!
Being serious, it looks a problem... Just wanted to release the best TNT game ever...

01-14-2003 20:38

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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Input on OS X

Hi Holmes,

I'm sorry but we haven't actually implemented the input commands on Mac OS X. This is something that we've been meaning to address for a while, but our users have been demanding other features, such as hardware accelerated sprites, better file access, easier tile scrolling etc. So basically it slipped down the priority list.

I'm afraid it's partly Apple's fault for dropping InputSprocket from Mac OS X without putting forth an equivalent to replace it, but we're going to look into replacing it soon. Until then, I'd suggest that you make your game always read 'up' 'down' 'left' 'right' as well as the 'poll input' commands. This way you will work on 9 and X.

So it's not 10.2.3, that broke it, it's just never worked :(

Mark

01-14-2003 23:05

Posted by:
matteo

Location:
Venice, ITALY!

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hmm...

I' m quite certain Holmes intended that not even the up -down -left- right keys worked... His game has no "input sprocket setup", only left -right-up- down and pressed.

01-15-2003 15:05

Posted by:
Holmes

Location:
Santa Rosa, Ca

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Yes, I'm not talking bout input sprocket, I'm talking about the regular old commands like:

if up then...
if down then...

they don't work anymore. Not in my games, not even in the examples I downloaded from this site.

The reason I think this is serious is a lot of user had been reporting this about my game who were using various versions of 10.2. Now that I've updated, I'm getting the same thing.

Oh yeah, also I can't bloody test anymore due to it.

01-15-2003 23:01

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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Input problems

I'm running 10.23 and Raptor and all our examples work fine...this is weird!

Is anybody else seeing this?

Mark

01-16-2003 02:41

Posted by:
Holmes

Location:
Santa Rosa, Ca

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I had originally been very confused by the seemingly random input problems from reports I was getting from users on VT. Now I'm getting them myself so its a much bigger issue for me. By the way, its not necessarily linked to 10.2.3, but thats just when it started happening for me. Their experiences are pretty dot on with mine. Mouse and escape works, nothing else. These reports are all the ones where input didn't work out of the 45 total reviews. It really seems horribly random. Here are their reports:

"Looks great - unfortunately it doesn't work. I had no control capabilities with the arrow keys and neither space nor return worked. Luckily the ESC key works so I could quit the game. I am using Apple standard hardware so I don't think it's my keyboard ..."

"the keys also do not work for me, i tested every key on the keyboard with and without capslock and numlock on (except the escape key works jsut fine). i've got a g4 867 running 10.2.1. the fps are just fine. looks like it might be a good time waster, although you could say that it's a knock off of an old pc game (right?)."

"Mmmkay. Consulted the readme. Controls would not work. At all. But I scored 1700 by it staying in one spot. Maybe later."

"Won't recognize the arrow keys or spacebar on my TiBook 800. "

"Like Supergod I can't get it to recognize any controls on my PowerBook G4 800."

01-16-2003 08:59

Posted by:
Heiko

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The same problem?

Hello,

I'm not sure but this problem described in the METAL Basic (yeah, yeah... calm down!) Forum may be the same:

-------------------------------------------
Wierd problem with Metal Basic Games
Everyone,

I've noticed a wierd problem I have been having with metal basic games. (Any of the contest entries, Quickduel, Komi, etc).

The problem is keyboard input seems to not be recongnized by the programs at times. When it doesn't work, it doesn't work with any Metal games I have got from here.

I am running 10.2.3 on a 700MHz Ibook. Keyboard input works for all other apps or games (Chimera, GLTron to name a few) I have tried.

Using the Komi game recently posted as an example. I can run it and select items from the menu with the mouse, but keypresses are not recoqnized. I can force quit the app from the keyboard and everything else non Metal seems to work fine.

Now I do leave my iBook on (sleep mode when I am not using it) and the problem will go away if I reboot the iBook, but it always seems to creep back.

Is this common? Something I am missing?
-------------------------------------------------------

Does this help? It could be possible that this problem is not specific to TNT.

Ciao, Heiko.

01-16-2003 22:43

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I've no idea about this one, it would indicate that the low level keyboard reading code has just stopped working for your computers.

Let me know if it spreads to anyone else, or if it starts affecting other applications. Any other information anyone finds would be most welcome!

Cheers,

Mark

01-19-2003 16:53

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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Input

Hi,

Apparently this is a low-level bug in Mac OS 10.2x. Apple are aware of the problem but haven't got around to fixing it yet. It affect all applications that detect the key board state using the Apple library function 'GetKeys' (if that means anything to anyone!).

It goes away if you log and and log back in again, and it's supposed to only happen if you've been logged in for a while without logging out.

We might be able to write a way to get our keyhits without using GetKeys, but this fix won't make it into TNT Basic 1.12, which will be released imminently.

Maybe Apple will fix it and release 10.2.4 soon? (Please?!)

Cheers,

Mark

01-19-2003 20:41

Posted by:
eLL

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imminent is a very beautiful word

I suspect that v1.12 will be mostly a maintenence...ie no new features

01-20-2003 01:36

Posted by:
CubeFusion

Location:
California, USA

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I've heard a couple rumors that the 10.2.4 update might be released this week. However I don't know how valid they are, because I heard them on another messageboard. I'm crossing my fingers right now.

01-20-2003 05:34

Posted by:
Holmes

Location:
Santa Rosa, Ca

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Wow, so thats why it seemed so random!

Logging out and in has fixed this for me. I'm very glad you investigated this, Mark. I had been wondering about it ever since October! I had always been ticked off since it was something that seemed out of my control. I blamed TNT the whole time, but now I have a new scapegoat, Apple! MUST CRUSH APPLE.

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