forums

TNT Basic Forums > Feedback
General thoughts on TNT
< Last Thread     Next Thread >
Author
Thread        Post A Reply

01-01-2003 16:49

Posted by:
matteo

Location:
Venice, ITALY!

Click Here to Email matteo   Find more posts by matteo

I like this program. If you have just a basic knowledge of coding and want to write your first game it' s really perfect. It has some WONDERFULL help, really great tutorials, It' s structure is really nice, you dont need Goto stuff and the rest. Oh, I should tell you I' m a beginner and I dont know much about programming. But I' m really proud of the games I made. And I must thank TNT . I have never written anything longer than 70 lines of code at school, but after five day of enthusiastic learning and thinking I managed to write 1000 lines of shoot' em up all by myself, I felt and feal REALLY PROUD. Wow, I learned to code, I thought. Wow, this TNT is really cool. Since I was a little boy I always wanted to write a game. Games are the only kind of software I' m interested in making. I think that they are a perfect fusion of fantasy, creativity, and really cool logical thinking (the coding part), that requires you to translate your ideas in computer executable algorithms. But until recently I had no knowledge of programming. At school I learned something in pascal and some mathematical tools. But I never had an Idea of how a game (or any software different from calculations) was structured.
So 40 days ago I decided I wanted to write a game, no matter what, simply to prove to myself that I could do it. So I started searching the web for some game specific software for mac (shareware or freeware, small size)
First thing I found: the incredibly amazing,utterly astonishing,radically revolting SILVER CREATOR(should be for card based games, whatever they are). The big problem was that I never had seen similar software, so I could not say it was SO bad. I passed 1/2 days learning to code on that. If you want to have an extrasensioral experience, try it. I managed to make one spaceship, one enemy and one shot move, and the enemy disappear when hit. This on a 300*300 window went something like one FPS. Oh, I understood the structure of a game (I just did not think about the timer: that' s the sense of a game: a series of instructions repeated every once a while) but that' s it. I can' t make games with this stuff.
So I found idevgames: there I found some "dev tools" : most downloads: TNT Basic (70 downloads, sob...) close to the phantomatic silver creator (65 downloads, extrasob...): well I got that stuff (TNT) and ran the examples: 50 sprites (bouncing splats) moving at amazing speed so fluid!!! And what a beautifull interface!!! And what a friendly help!!! I love this stuff, i thought.
And so my shooter was going. I continued adding stuff and discovering TNT. I finished my shooter, I never thought I could do something like that, and now I believe I can code.
Well, all marvelous? Not quite. This TNT... It so friendly to write on it... but it has some bugs. Now I wont tell you exactly, I found many different, little annoying things. For example some instructions must be placed after others or they wont work. The TNT is also not so stable. Nothing too annoying (look out Silver creator, .... ridicolusly...wahahahaha!!! incredible software, no words :-))
TNT is fast, but not indefinetly fast. As almost all software, it has it limits.
So I started looking if I had missed some software, other gaming or generally programming tools, that could make me feel the same way I fealed when I discovered TNT after loosing time with Silver Creator: Faster, more stable, more friendly, easier. (oh, sorry for my spelling). I looked at METAL Basic: It looks REALLY stable, quite powerfull (7/8 times quicker than TNT in some loops I tried), but TNT has a quick sprite sistem, that is very important, and I don' t know if METAL can beat that (?).
But it' s sure less friendly, I did not like the coding examples, no resource editor, too many strange stuff (the virtual screens... annoying), and no lovely help and tutorials such as thoes in TNT. And also (i think), no cool stuff (I' m starting do understand the great potential) such as scaling, rotating, maps... really friendly and quick stuff.
So I thought: no, I' m not going through learning and writing in that unconfortable stuff of METAL that is, as far as games, presumably comparable to TNT. So my new game is in TNT.
Works fine for now. Dont have so complex graphic stuff. (Even though I feal TNT is quite solid there... can do cool stuff... by mistake I made a sprite scaling bigger and turning and the 3D effect looked quite impressive...)

Some questions: Anyone knows some dev kit that is faster, more stable, more friendly, easier than TNT? Or simply better in at lest one of these and not worst in the others?
I' m going to take a look at C/C++. That will be boring... If you start with TNT you won' t be confortable in anything else...
Hello everybody
Matteo

01-02-2003 04:05

Posted by:
eLL

Click Here to Email eLL   Find more posts by eLL

line breaks

I can't stress the usefulness of paragraph stucture and the occasional line break enough...

01-02-2003 17:37

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

Click Here to Email Mark Tully   Find more posts by Mark Tully

Stability

I have email Matteo off list, but can everyone please make sure they provide as much information of 'instability' reports as possible as general hand waving doesn't help us at all!

Cheers,

Mark

01-03-2003 12:56

Posted by:
matteo

Location:
Venice, ITALY!

Click Here to Email matteo   Find more posts by matteo

by kind request...

Ok, I'll try to remember... Sorry for vagueness, I know it does not help. I should have written somewhere all the problems I encounterd. I didn' t bother. Maybe I should have. My post was about my general impression on TNT. But you have all the rights to get the details, you' re the
ones that made the good work and any bad note should be precise, even though, as I wrote in the previous post my general impression on TNT is very good.
Argh, it will be a hard work to remember and test these bugs... well, I didn' t think you bothered. But if you bother, then I'll bother. You know, after trying Silver Creator I was so happy just for avoiding to restart every 10 minutes...
So these are the problems I remember:
(I' m using mac os 9.2.2 on an iMac 350 Mhz, 320 MB Ram.)

\subsubsection{for mr LaTex there, who likes structured writing}

My game (Chicken Fryer, I must have sent it to you recently) runs on my iMac 9.2.2 but does not run on iBook (running10.1.5 400 Mhz 128 MB Ram):only the music starts, I can only force the exit, "esc" does not work. Running 9.2.2 on the iBook it works.

while running a file on TNT it crashed the system 9 and I cannot open it again(cool!).

If you load input 128, edit input, graphics mode hardware, load images 128 it says "load images 128:the resource is missing"( you have to edit input after graphics mode).

If you are missing some(too many) pics (you have them on the column to the left, you drag them to the right, then you delete the one on the left) it says "load images 128:the resource is missing"

If you graphics mode hardware, scale sprite 0,5,5,-1, load images 128
the sprite you scaled (number 0) will never appear. You have to load images then scale sprite.

Sometimes says "draw picture xxx:there is not enough memory to complete the operation", but if you quit and run again it works.

with some coding errors it often crashed the system.
(Sorry, I know this is useless... what can I say? Just cant get them to my mind... maybe some loops?)

'And generally sometimes crashes the system (perhaps 10-15 times in 100 hours, that aint bad)
Not more than any microsoft app, anyway :-)

Plus I think a few other problems I will never remember.
But considering the time I spent on it, that aint bad. It' s just that the program is so nice that little problems feel strange.

Matteo

PS: I' m gonna tell you everything from now on, not one bug will survive invisible...

01-03-2003 19:59

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

Click Here to Email Mark Tully   Find more posts by Mark Tully

Thanks!

Thanks a lot Matteo, I'll start going through those now.

Mark

01-05-2003 15:00

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

Click Here to Email Mark Tully   Find more posts by Mark Tully

Bugs

Bugs from Matteo:


My game (Chicken Fryer, I must have sent it to you recently) runs on my iMac 9.2.2 but does not run on iBook (running10.1.5 400 Mhz 128 MB Ram):only the music starts, I can only force the exit, "esc" does not work. Running 9.2.2 on the iBook it works.


Fixed for next version


while running a file on TNT it crashed the system 9 and I cannot open it again(cool!).


Unable to duplicate
Can't do anything with this one.


If you load input 128, edit input, graphics mode hardware, load images 128 it says "load images 128:the resource is missing"( you have to edit input after graphics mode).

If you are missing some(too many) pics (you have them on the column to the left, you drag them to the right, then you delete the one on the left) it says "load images 128:the resource is missing"


Not a bug
I think both of these stem from trying to load an image bank that has contains images that you've deleted the pictures for. If you create an image bank, fill it with images and then delete the picture from the left pane, the image bank's entry will be set to 'Missing Picture'. That bank will not load until you import a new picture with the same id or delete the image from the image bank. If you try to load an image bank with a missing picture you will get the error message "resource missing".


If you graphics mode hardware, scale sprite 0,5,5,-1, load images 128
the sprite you scaled (number 0) will never appear. You have to load images then scale sprite.


Not a bug
You cannot set a sprite image before you have loaded the images.


Sometimes says "draw picture xxx:there is not enough memory to complete the operation", but if you quit and run again it works.


Not a bug
This will happen under Mac OS 9 but not under under Mac OS X. It happens when an application allocates and deallocates a lot of memory blocks of a period of time. OS 9 doesn't manage this memory very well and ends up doing something call 'heap fragmentation'. If you restart TNT Basic this will go away.
You can make it less likely to happen by increasing the amount of memory allocate to the TNT Basic application using the Finder's "Get Info" command.


with some coding errors it often crashed the system.
(Sorry, I know this is useless... what can I say? Just cant get them to my mind... maybe some loops?)


Unable to duplicate


'And generally sometimes crashes the system (perhaps 10-15 times in 100 hours, that aint bad)
Not more than any microsoft app, anyway :-)


Unable to duplicate


Finally

If you've crashed in Mac OS X, please send me a system profile from Apple's System Profiler tool. This will contain a crash log telling me where TNT Basic crashed.

Thanks a lot for your help!

Mark

01-05-2003 18:04

Posted by:
matteo

Location:
Venice, ITALY!

Click Here to Email matteo   Find more posts by matteo

try this on 9

Load a picture, and put it on the right side too.
Create a new input.
code exactly this:

load input 128
edit input
graphics mode hardware 640,480
load images 128
repeat
sprite 0,100,100,0
draw frame
until space

run

it says always

*** Runtime exception caught ***
Line# : 4
Code : load images 128
Error : The resource is missing.

01-05-2003 18:12

Posted by:
matteo

Location:
Venice, ITALY!

Click Here to Email matteo   Find more posts by matteo

this is less important but stange

graphics mode hardware 640,480
scale sprite 0,1,1,-1
load images 128
repeat
sprite 0,100,100,0
draw frame
until space

the strange thing is that the sprite 0 will never be drawn!
It does not appear on the screen!

01-26-2003 23:09

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

Click Here to Email Mark Tully   Find more posts by Mark Tully

Bugs

Hi Matteo,

Are you sure the first error is a bug? Usually if TNT Basic says there's a missing resource then there is? I've tried your example on my Mac and it works fine - maybe you deleted a resource accidentally?

Send me the project if you are sure this is not the case and I'll look into it.

The second problem stems from the fact that that my scaling a sprite before you set an image, it gets scaled down to nothing. Your code says scale up to double size - which as the size is 0x0 (as it has no image set yet) the resultant size is 0x0. When you then set an image the sprite is still infinitely small!

Try adding the line 'sprite off 0' before your loop. This will completely reset the sprite, including all it's scaling values.

Hope this helps,

Mark

All times are GMT        Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
< Last Thread     Next Thread >

< Contact Us - TNT Basic >

Powered by: vBulletin Lite Version 1.0.1 Lite
Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000.