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12-10-2001 03:10

Posted by:
the_crazy_one

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tnt basic looks extremely promising - there aren't all that many Mac-based game creation systems. Adventure Creator only does Myst-like stuff and isn't very flexible, Cocoa is just too old, and so on. i've been looking for something like this for entirely too long :)

i'd like to see some quicktime support, though...like, playing QT movies as cutscenes and stuff. maybe even embed them in the games instead of sprites. but other than the absence of QT, tnt looks great! i'll be registering any day now...

12-10-2001 09:46

Posted by:
Mark Tully

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QuickTime

It's on our todo list, quite near the top because it's quite easy.

Anyone want anything beyond movie playback to an arbitrary canvas? (With full control functions and accessors obviously).

Mark

12-10-2001 10:03

Posted by:
Socrates

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Ooh, me, I want...

What would be really great is QTVR support. RB lets you play QTVR's just like any other movie (I don't think there's actualy any trick to that), but it doesn't have any programmer accessible commands for scrolling, etc. QTVR is great for pseudo 3D scrolling backgrounds such as those used in some point n' click shooters, etc.

I'm only talking about the "in a room looking out" type QTVR, though now I come to think of it, the QTVR objects might be a way to go for sprite rotation/scaling.

12-10-2001 12:02

Posted by:
ERaZer

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QTVR...

If you use QTVR for sprite scrolling and rotating, it wouldn't be any difftent from now except it uses the QTVR format... Becouse its all prerendred and that you can do now.

12-10-2001 12:09

Posted by:
Socrates

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Wait...

That's not quite true.

QTVR does real-time perspective changes when it scrolls a backdrop. I was thinking of it for use in a point and click Myst type game where you could explore a room by looking all around, or a virtua-cop type shooting game where you could look all around. As for the objects, the rotating may be done by pre-rendered frames, but I assume it does some sort of compression, and it does do scaling (zooming in and out on the object) which you can't do now with TNT. With these two features you could make a pseudo 3D tank game or space flight simulator with wraparound backdrops.

As I said though, it's mainly the backdrops I'm after. The scaling/rotation can probably be implemented better with openGL or whatever.

12-10-2001 14:30

Posted by:
ERaZ

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...

I agree with you on that, using it like backdrops etc. But I didn't agree using the sprites cuz that doesn't do so much diffrence.

12-11-2001 00:39

Posted by:
Mark Tully

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QuickTime VR

Couple of questions:

How would you see input to the qtvr movie working? Would you want it to track the mouse movement as happens in QuickTime Player, or supply some sort of manual input from tnt basic commands (e.g. rotate qtvr/scale qtvr). I think that would be best.

I've never really messed much with QTVR, is it still a supported technology? (ie under OS X). Also, I understood you had to buy special software in order to create QTVR movies (a stitcher?). Is this still true?

12-11-2001 00:59

Posted by:
Socrates

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QTVR

It would definately be better to have code based support for the QTVR movie. Basically just a command for each of the buttons in the QTVR controller (pan, zoom, etc). Also, QTVR has it's own hotspots system that would need to be integrated with the TNT hotspots. You wouldn't want to do it yourself because the hotspots need to move and distort with the QTVR panorama.




You do need s stitcher application, which is a tad annoying. QTVR uses a single distorted image which is generated by the stitcher as it's input and undistorts it to make it look correct from any given angle. Basically the realtime bit pastes it on the inside of a hollow cylinder surrounding the viewer (as far as I can work out), but in order to stop it looking weird it does an inverse distortion beforehand.

A number of 3D programs (well, actually Infini-D is the only one I'm certain of) can output QTVR panoramas. That's by far the easiset way to make one.

I'm pretty sure Apple aren't dropping it. It's part of quicktime, so it's platform independant, and they just introduced something called cubic VR in the latest version of Quicktime (5), so they aren't acting like it's something they're phasing out.

12-11-2001 01:01

Posted by:
Socrates

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QTVR

It would definately be better to have code based support for the QTVR movie. Basically just a command for each of the buttons in the QTVR controller (pan, zoom, etc). Also, QTVR has it's own hotspots system that would need to be integrated with the TNT hotspots. You wouldn't want to do it yourself because the hotspots need to move and distort with the QTVR panorama.




You do need s stitcher application, which is a tad annoying. QTVR uses a single distorted image which is generated by the stitcher as it's input and undistorts it to make it look correct from any given angle. Basically the realtime bit pastes it on the inside of a hollow cylinder surrounding the viewer (as far as I can work out), but in order to stop it looking weird it does an inverse distortion beforehand.

A number of 3D programs (well, actually Infini-D is the only one I'm certain of) can output QTVR panoramas. That's by far the easiset way to make one.

I'm pretty sure Apple aren't dropping it. It's part of quicktime, so it's platform independant, and they just introduced something called cubic VR in the latest version of Quicktime (5), so they aren't acting like it's something they're phasing out.

12-11-2001 22:03

Posted by:
Mark Collins

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SO very HAPPY

As a Amiga user(Amiga 1200 next to my G4 Cube :) )
I cannot express My Thanks at coming out with TNT - I enjoyed STOS/AMOS and BlitzBasic SO very much

I have played with TNT for a cpl hours and already have a HUGE request list :) (I will only give you a bit )

Code Editor needs Fold/Unfold on procedure (HIDE CODE) , MUST HAVE
If cursor is over a Token word and help is pressed bring up that help (down the list quite a ways but a nice feature)

Apple Menu Bar options and STD dialog boxes (MUST HAVE) one of the biggest complaints about amos on the amiga was lack of std dialog boxes(I believe AMOS PRO and some 3rd party acc added that)

a Library system would also be of EXTREME help ( plugin etc.. )


Support for KAGI or some sort of registration is needed

I plan on playing with the map editor rest of this week, hopefully you will have incorporated some of the ease of TOME and your map functions support back ground animation scripting in the editor..

Are you going to add a file repository for users to u.l. /d.l. demo code to ?

12-12-2001 10:04

Posted by:
John Treece-Birch

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Requested Features

Thanks for the feedback! To answer all your questions...

Unfortunately, we don't particularly want to add Fold/Unfold to the code editor. We found it made it harder to navigate around code in AMOS so we replaced it with the Procedure pop-up menu at the bottom left corner of the screen. We are also thinking of adding multiple code file support to help break things up even more. If we get more requests for it then obviously we will bow to public demand.

If you select a word or phrase and then bring up help, TNT Basic's help system will look up that up. We don't want to do use just where the cursor is because sometimes you just want to bring help up so that you can look through it at the examples and tutorials.

We haven't added support for dialogs or the mac toolbox yet because we are prioritising TNT Basic as a game development tool. These are on our list of things to do but most games don't use standard dialogs so they are low on our list of priorities.

We don't really want to add support for plug-ins because in AMOS that meant that code would run on one copy of AMOS and not on another copy that is the exactly the same version. We don't want that with TNT Basic, if someone has version 1.2.3 then that should run everything that runs on someone else's copy of 1.2.3. We just think it makes it more reliable and easier for beginners to get into.

Our registration system is KAGI.

The file repository is a very good suggstion. It would encourage code sharing and hopefully make it easier for beginners to get hold of examples. We'll start looking into that.

Thanks again for the feedback,
John

12-12-2001 17:30

Posted by:
Retrogeeks

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Registration of TNT Basic and Other

to clarify a earlier question of mine.
1) Does TNT support KAGI - Kart Technology or their automated key generation tools?

IE - I create a standalone game and want the registration system of kagi to take the money and generate the unlock code for the tnt game ?

Additional Question

If I register, Do I get all updates to TNT 1.0 till it hits 2.0? Its a great price for the product but I dont want to get into paying for updates every 45days.

And an addition/? concerning libraries
I do want the webbased example sharing area.
but the Procedure Library for within the development enviroment would be even more important to me.


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