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07-08-2007 23:00

Posted by:
Jacob

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Allnodcoms, where's the blog? Did it get lost or pushed of the table?

07-22-2007 14:51

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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The BLOG...

Sorry Jacob, it's been a pretty busy month or so here (and with the kids off now it's going to be even busier), but I've finally got around to putting something up on the BLOG front.

here's the link.

There's not much in the way of useful content up there at the moment, but there are a couple of pages to browse through, and you should be able to get a pretty good idea of how I'm progressing with the project.
There is no facility for feedback on the blog pages (though I may add this soon), so for the time being you can either leave your questions, opinions and general criticisms here, or mail me direct.

Danny (nod the mod)

07-22-2007 15:19

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someone

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hey good! i already have some response ^^


I was, and to a degree still am, against the whole Open Source thing, not in general I just don't think it is right for TNT, I don't think it will benefit from the move for the simple reason that the users are not likely to be able to advance the project. IMHO it would benefit the TNT community more by getting dedicated and experienced developers on board to move the thing along. It's got more potential than its limited competition and could become a serious player in the Mac game development market.


I don't understand you. In what way does being open-source prevent dedicated developers taking care of it? actually, this is happens with pretty much all open-source projects, there are a few dedicated developers, and regular users are not expected to produce code... what it does is keep the information public


There are also no current plans to implement any non Mac versions of the software. Whilst a cross platform system was a major request on the TNT Basic forums, such a system would require an implementation that would compromise the features available to the Mac version. The decision was made to make the Mac version as good as it could be, using all available resources, but not to bias the theory behind the engine against some future port. The main reason for this decision was the plug and play facilities offered by the Objective C language. By moving away from C++ the engine gains the ability to support plugin modules at runtime, using existing Apple standards.


Hmm we somewhat disagree here, but i have an idea : it is surely possible, in desing, to keep things modular. i have done that with a few of my projects. for instance, for graphics OpenGL is incredibly powerful AND cross-platform, so no problem there. However, it may not be the case for sound, in which case it could be good to create a set of high-level functions and place all mac-specific class in the implementation of these functions - so that if you want to make a windows/linux version later you can just reimplement these functions with appropriate code for these platforms.

I found doing this in my project to be very beneficial, and not only for cross-platform but also for code cleanness.


I don't know if you've even thought about it, but the language is a real mess, there are calls where the parameters are in brackets, others where there are no brackets, some where there are additional words in the argument list, and loads where the meaning of the call is purely dependant on the number and type of the arguments.


i noticed too ^^ a question that might be worth asking, should we at some point break compatibility with current TNT, in poorly desinged areas?

otherwise, good work

07-22-2007 17:44

Posted by:
swagIT

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Nicely done Danny.

Thanks for taking the time to let us know what's going on.

10 kids! WOW.

As God is my witness I will NEVER again complain to my wife about not having any time to work on my projects. I'm a positive lounging hippie slacker by comparison!

I really appreciate that one of the things you value is that TNT has "a nice homely feel". I don't think I am alone sharing this point of view with you.

I regret that I don't have the qualificatiions to help with the project - but I can and will continue to develop using TNT and spread the Gospel as it were.

Nothing wrong the Jam - I still play them and Sqeeze and the Style Council much to my Wife's annoyance. LOTR - well I would be suspicious of anyone who wasn'r enamored with Middle Earth.

Let me know if there is any way I can contribute and I'll do my best to step up to the plate as the Yanks say.

cheers

barry

07-22-2007 20:05

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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Woah... Feedback already!

OK, one at a time:

1: The Open Source thing was about releasing the source code to a high level language, written in a low level language, to programmers who are, by the nature of our forums, having problems writing in that original high level language. TNT has, according to some, been a good launch pad to move on to bigger and better things. The key there is "move on", the people who are likely to be able to contribute to the further development of the project no longer visit the site.
To add to this we also have a project that was written in a hugely proprietary IDE that is no longer available for the platform. It is built on legacy SDKs which are not compatible with the currently available IDE, and you could fit the source code documentation on the back of a matchbox! The source has been available for nearly two years now, and dedicated developers are proving to be pretty thin on the ground...
And to be fair, I did say "to a degree"...

2: Modular coding is well within reach of other, less OO based languages. The point is that I feel we should utilise all available Apple technologies to their greatest extent to ensure that the Mac version is both as good as it can be, and as forwardly compatible as possible. I also said that the theory behind the engine should not bias against a possible future port. By developing a new project format and publishing the format of the language database (to aid future development of plug-ins) I am actually moving away from our current level of Mac dependence, as neither the rsrc or the bundle formats can be read on a PC running any flavour of OS. I have no plans to write a PC port at this time, but I do not intend to make it difficult to do so at any point in the future.

3: I think that when a new editor is available people will use this rather than the original, and yes, at this point I can see a huge benefit in at least standardising the calling conventions. But in the end, the code needs to be written to handle the current syntax, so to continue to use this would not be a problem. Any new calls added will have a more uniform structure.

Barry, thanks for the comments, and yes it can get a bit hectic round dinner time! Definitely keep up with TNT, there is actually some real progress now and I'm looking forward to writing some serious code again, not done anything on this scale for a good few years and it'll be good get the old grey matter working again.

Thanks for the comments guys, I'll be updating probably once or twice a week, maybe more if I have something really cool (as Jobsy would say) to tell you about.

'Till next time...

Danny (nod the mod)

07-23-2007 01:05

Posted by:
someone

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I have no plans to write a PC port at this time, but I do not intend to make it difficult to do so at any point in the future.

Okay good! just to make sure we meant the same thing. spreading mac-specific calls everywhere could have made an eventual porting uselessly difficult

as for the calling conventions, i think it is that parenthesis are used when the function returns something, but i'm not sure. i'm not sure it is useful to make the difference, and even if we decide to make it i'm not sure parenthesis is the right way to show that.

09-03-2007 21:32

Posted by:
Tim

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TNT 2?



This would put a spoke in the BIITZMAX wheel :)

09-04-2007 16:38

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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That's the plan ;)

Hi Tim, TNT2 is coming along slowly. The kids went back to school after the six week summer holidays today (I've been kind of busy over the last month and a half!) and coding the main engine will recommence in the next day or so. I've done fair bit of work since my last blog post, so it's time for an update there as well (give me a couple of days while I get used to the peace and quiet again).

Basically, the editor has started coming together (if only the interface).
The main engine is fully outlined and pseudo coded.
The parser is basically there on paper, but needs finalising.
I've made a start on some of the simpler language functions, but nothing too high brow at the moment, basic math stuff and some memory management calls (we will be able to allocate and manipulate memory blocks! WOOTY!)

I've also designed the new TNT2 Logo, I know it's not a major part of the operation but I was just dabbling and came up with a pretty cool new look. More on all of this soon.
Thanks also to Rasmus, who has really put a boot up my arse on this one... "Come on mate, I'll race you!"

Danny (nod the mod)

09-04-2007 22:39

Posted by:
Tim

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TNT 2

Way cool Danny, Ill be keeping an eye on progress with great interest, sounds like your far more down the track than the Blog eludes to. Keep up the good work mate! Im glad I popped round to check the forums.

09-04-2007 23:33

Posted by:
swagIT

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Go Danny Go!

09-06-2007 08:35

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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New Update...

Just a quick note to let you good people know that I've made a small but significant update to the BLOG.

Same old link...

Danny (nod the blog)

09-11-2007 02:43

Posted by:
Tim

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New Zealand

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TNT2 Logo

Dont change a thing, will look great in my Dock! :)

09-11-2007 21:47

Posted by:
Jacob

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Some ideas:
I don't like tabs, everything should be viewable at the same time.


There you have the code, folders, and file viewer.
Very simple layout, and I find it to look very easy to use.

Underneath folders is all the contents of that folder, all folders are built-in to the game when it's built. One folder you might call sounds, another images, or these are the default folders when a project is created.

Bye,
Jacob

09-11-2007 22:45

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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Er... Very informative screen shot there Jacob ;)

I'm not a great fan of the current IDE layout either, and I'm not using tabs for the main interface. There are certain restrictions though, basically down to screen 'real estate', the graphics section for example will hold a lot of information. We will have a basic 'per pixel' editor, an animation studio (for basic testing), a tileset cutter (manual and auto) and builder (although maps will be able to use tilesets or sprite banks), and heaps of other stuff (watch for the next update, coming soon!). The code editor section currently has enhanced navigation of code, automatic help and code completion facilities as well as multi file support. I've also added (coz I wanted them!) project notes, a to do list manager, a calculator and some other pretty cool stuff, including a working web browser (RB 2007... You've got to love it!).

Guess what I've been playing with since my birthday? (yesterday for those of you who give a shit... I'm officially 40! WOOT!)

Anyway, the IDE beckons ;)

'Till next time...

Danny (nod the old git)

09-12-2007 07:00

Posted by:
swagIT

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Very Nice Danny! Love the logo - nice PS work!

Lots of progress I see. Wonderful - keep up the good work!

I hitting 41 in 5 days - 40 BAH! Just a kid I say!

cheers

barry

09-12-2007 13:58

Posted by:
appleide

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gah! I have a common hobby with men twice my age.

Nice progress there Danny!!! The logo is truly professional. (Hardly sounds like a compliment as you're already a pro, but believe me, it is one. I just don't know how else to describe it. :/)

Hmm, about RB2007, I am guessing RB improved alot in the speed aspect since 5.0? I made a simple word counting application with rb5.x and it takes over ten seconds to start, though one must note that it is a ppc program running on intel.

09-12-2007 21:25

Posted by:
Jacob

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Ya, not to informative...

Well, here is the screenshot: Layout

Direct linking should work with fileYou, but I guess it didn't...box.net again.

09-12-2007 22:57

Posted by:
Jacob

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Wish I could edit...

Okay, just had to make the folder public...ignore the above post.

09-13-2007 09:04

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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Thanks for the feedback guys...

Wow Barry, someone older than me in here! You truly are a fossil! ;)

appleide: Twice your age? That means I was doing this sort of thing before you were even born! Now that gives me a warm and fuzzy (if somewhat geriatric) feeling... and thanks for the comments on the logo. Much appreciated.

Jacob: Got the grab now, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the new look IDE. I'll get some grabs of my own out as soon as I finish getting things the way I want them.

While on the subject of the IDE, is there anything people would like to be able to access from everywhere, no matter whether you are editing code, graphics or writing up your 'ToDo' list? I've currently got a two tab clipboard equivalent (for text and graphics), and it holds multiple items you can flick through with a little arrow pairing, you can also type directly into it. I put it in as I thought it would act like that "little bit off paper" that always sits next to me when I'm coding. I'm not sure about it though... What do we think?

Well thanks for the feedback again, I'm still badgering away on this, and will update the Blog in the next few days. Hopefully I can add some screen grabs.

'Till next time...

Danny (nod the mod)

09-13-2007 17:18

Posted by:
swagIT

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Fossil - yikes! I have always called my parents "The Fossils" - sigh very disturbing.......

The only thing I would like to see would be an Alphabetized listing of Procedures/Functions as opposed to the current list of Procedures in the order they are written. In one project I have over 100 procedures and sometimes it is time consuming to scroll through to find just exactly where you put the one you currently need to edit.......

cheers

barry

09-13-2007 17:56

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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Already there mate!

It's on the code page... You can switch between alphabetic and declared order (just click the listbox header). Am I good or what?

Danny (nod the mod)

09-13-2007 18:32

Posted by:
swagIT

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Nice! - Ok so the only other thing I have come across that would be useful to me (possibly to no one else) would be the ability to 'find/change' an item only in a selected area or only within a specific function.

i.e. because I'm a terrible planner - I want to change every instance of x to x[1] but only in a selected section of code or within a specific fuction.

Right now I copy the required code into a text editor - find/replace what I need and the paste it back into Heiroglyph. No real biggie - just a bit of a timesaver...


cheers

barry

Procedure Life()
repeat
Drink Coffee
until sleep
end proc

09-13-2007 19:00

Posted by:
swagIT

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Oh and some sort of Widget-driven, USB-powered Coffee maker would be great!

and of course Peace on Earth,

and a few Hats - people aren't wearing enough hats!

09-13-2007 19:21

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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OK, idea for you...

I've not actually got a 'find', I've just extended the current procedure pop up to include variables, labels and a new addition, bookmarks (a handy little thing you could do in CodeWarrior). You select the thing you want to find from a pop up, and the filters to apply (the type of variable for example) and it displays a list. Another pop up allows you to specify the particular instance, then a click takes you to that instance in the code, either the declaration, first, last or closest instance to the cursor. There is also a next / previous option once one is found (if relevant). This can already be limited by scope (at least in the interface if not the code...), so a 'rename' option should do the trick.

I could always just add a 'Find' of course... Oh, by the way, in your life() procedure I spotted a syntax error... You misspelt 'Beer'...

Danny (nod the mod)

09-13-2007 19:51

Posted by:
swagIT

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Sounds perfectly fine to me!

Drat - I knew I was doing something wrong!


I see now 'B-E-E-R' - that's much better......

cheers

barry

09-19-2007 20:05

Posted by:
Tim

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Ideas OOP?

This is sounding better and better Danny, I cant wait. All these features I wouldn't have known to ask for, but will use for sure!

One thing Im intrigued about with BLTIZ its is ability to have your own Types (user defined variables). These dont impact on those who wish to use normal arrays, but are extremely powerful when planning games with cast of thousands. ie

TYPE Tank[]
DIM X,Y
DIM Hits
DIM Direction=1
END TYPE

tank_list=tank_list+ New tank[]

so to change a tanks x its like INC tank[X]

Also, that you can declare a Array like tanklist[] and its dynamic, you add to the array as required.

I dunno, some things to mull over, you may have already have better plans.

09-22-2007 07:47

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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I like dynamic arrays...

Changing array bounds at run time is something I've been thinking about, it's a good addition, but I'm not sure I want to do objects just yet. It's a bit 'C++' for my liking.
As you know I'm an old STOSSER ("Is that a typo?" - Ed), so I'm adding a few of my favourite bits from the old classic (you should see what I've got planned for "CALL"!), but I want to keep it as traditional as possible for the time being. Objects, or STRUCT equivalents, are handy things to have around so may make an appearance further down the line, but for now at least it's a no for TYPE.

Danny (nod the mod)

09-22-2007 18:44

Posted by:
someone

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I think the target user of TNT 2.0 should be clearly defined. Do you target the "old nostalgic developer" (=P) or the beginner/amateur? In case you target the latter, i guess it would be better to aim at providing an easy-to-use yet modern package, than to try keeping the old stuff new programmers have never even used and probably will never. Of course if you set the goal of TNT 2.0 to recreate old stuff then it'S fine - i think it just should be made clear for once and all.

PS: Don't take anything i said as an insult or soemthing... i just find the direction of TNT is quite unclear ATM

09-22-2007 19:51

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someone

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PS2: When i said "old nostalgic developer" it was a joke, don't hate me =P

09-22-2007 21:01

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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Someone, if you'd ever seen STOS you'd know...

You are talking about one and the same thing here. The Nostalgic stuff is way easier to understand than anything they produce nowadays. Forget your game in 60 tutorials, in STOS you could bump a game together in ten to fifteen minutes, it really was that simple... I wrote a Dungeon Master clone in STOS (including graphics) in two days.

The direction for TNT2 is exactly the same as for TNT. Ease of use and simplicity are my main goals. The only difference is that I want to make TNT work properly, every time, and I want to add features that will allow people to take things further if they wish to. This is consistent with the approach taken by both STOS and AMOS (the Amiga version of STOS which Mark based TNT on in the first place). I want to give easy to understand access to low level features, something that can't be done at the moment.

You need to remember mate, in the 'old days' you needed something that could be understood by a total newbie, not only to programming, but to computers. You also needed to provide a package that could run a 50 fps game with scrolling backgrounds, sprites and sound effects, and all on an 8 MHz processor with half meg of RAM and no hard drive.

Rest assured, TNT2 will be both easy to understand and powerful, and will allow language extensions to make it even more powerful...

If you don't want to use it again then that's up to you, but you'll be missing out! ;)

Danny (nod the mod)

09-22-2007 23:10

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someone

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>
If you don't want to use it again then that's up to you, but you'll be missing out! ;)
>

well i never planned on using it but i'm interested in the tool that originally got me in ;)

to speak my mind, here's a small example:

int space_ship_x[10]
int space_ship_y[10]
int space_ship_lives[10]
int space_ship_level[10]
int space_ship_image[10]

OR

type spaceship
int x, y, lives, level, image
end type

spaceship enemies[10]

is the second really more complicated than the first? it may take a few more seconds two learn, but its IMO much better.

of course you will implement things as you wish, but these are things i would have considered highly desirable, i.e. "when i get there" and not "maybe later".
anyway perhaps you intended to and it's just some communcation problem :P anyway we obvously don't share the same views so i'll let you with your project

09-23-2007 00:04

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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I think you're kind of missing the point here...

STOS could do that, an aggregate type is just an area of memory and it's members are just offsets into that space. To extend that to the C++ object model, the methods are just pointers to functions defined elsewhere.
If you introduce something as simple as memory manipulation (an 80's concept) then you get the ability to use objects.

Blitz, C / C++ /Obj-C and others may introduce some smart features, but at the end of the day they all implement the same thing through machine code, which doesn't have any of this sort of stuff. BASIC, by which I mean traditional ISO defined BASIC, is about the closest thing you can get to accessible machine code (trust me here, I've been doing this a while), and with a good, flexible implementation of the language, you'd be surprised what you can achieve with a little imagination.

I wrote a series of articles for a major magazine which were based on introducing programming to complete newbies, and one of the things that they had real problems with was the concept of a variable. This was not so much the storage aspect, but the relationship between the variable and the thing it was supposed to represent. For example, if you say "sprite 1, x, y, img", people can get that x / y hold the position, but can't get that if you change one of the values the sprite stays where it was until you call 'sprite' again... I do not think (IMHO), that structures will help here.

Think "Beginner's All purpose Symbolic Instruction Code..."

Maybe we need TNT2 Pro...

Danny (nod the mod)

09-23-2007 00:40

Posted by:
someone

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I agree and understand, but adding the feature is still not like forcing anyone to use it

09-26-2007 21:28

Posted by:
Tim

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TNT 2 backward compatible.

So the idea is that current TNT projects like Tang can be be load and recompiled as a universal? Re-engineered with all the new wizzy features?

09-26-2007 22:36

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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Yup...

As long as it's in .tbproj format, TNT will load it, in fact it already does... It just doesn't do much with it. I'm playing with the editor again, and possibly a little too much. I should be banging my head against the actual mechanics but I'll get back to them soon... With a project of this size it's difficult (as a 'one man band') to know where to start, do I write an engine to interpret a byte code file that doesn't exist, or write something to create this file which will then be thrown to an interpreter that isn't there yet? Chickens and eggs... I said before that I've handled projects like this, just never on my own, there's always been someone else there to bounce ideas off of, brainstorm with and, at the end of the day, palm off the shitty jobs that I can't be arsed with ;) Being a lead developer is only cool if you have someone to lead...

Anyway Tim, back to work... or was that bed?

'Till next time...

Danny (nod the mod)

09-26-2007 23:53

Posted by:
Tim

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Heh, its work 10am when I posted that. Sorry I cant help out, I have enough problems with BASIC :)

10-03-2007 14:37

Posted by:
allnodcoms

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New Update 03/10/2007

Hi all, I've posted a pretty interesting new update over on the blog page. I know I've not posted for a bit, but hopefully you'll see why...

For those of you that really can't be bothered to check it out, I'm looking at an Alpha / Pre-Alpha build by December, with a possible Beta release early in the new year. I've come up with a pretty radical approach to theory testing this thing which is really speeding things along, and could (repeat 'could') give us some really exciting possibilities (depending on speed tests)... Cross Platform 3D anyone? ;)

I'm also working on a TNT2 website, but who cares? TNT2 is coming!

Danny (iNod)

10-03-2007 18:02

Posted by:
swagIT

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Wow! Very Cool! Nice work.......... it is all so very exciting!

I can't tell you how pleased I am that you have waded into this monumental task!

Go Danny Go!

10-03-2007 20:36

Posted by:
Tim

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woot

Woohoo, I havent looked forward to something like this since, since, LOTR, ...ok that was a bit nerdy.

10-03-2007 22:14

Posted by:
swagIT

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There are support groups for that you know......

10-27-2007 20:56

Posted by:
Tim

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10.5 and TNT

Sad to say it locked up compiling under Leopard. More reason to bring on TNT2. :/

10-31-2007 21:14

Posted by:
Tim

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Scratch that...

Several complies later no further issues under Leopard :\

11-01-2007 02:43

Posted by:
swagIT

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Hey Tim - do you notice any difference running the App with Leopard - I remember reading about some Rosetta improvements..........

11-02-2007 21:40

Posted by:
Jacob

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Anything!

Anything I can do to make this move a little faster!?

12-23-2007 19:22

Posted by:
Tim

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New Zealand

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Ho Ho Ho and a Merry Xmas!

Happy holidays guys! Hope things are progressing Dan, no updates for a while, no pressure, none at all.

12-23-2007 19:52

Posted by:
swagIT

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Shhhhhh ........ don't bug him! It might interfere with 2.0!

LOL

happy holidays

01-13-2008 22:23

Posted by:
Jacob

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Any news here?

01-29-2008 04:35

Posted by:
appleide

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Yeah... news'd be great ^^

02-24-2008 10:27

Posted by:
appleide

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I have sent an email to Danny and got a reply:

Hi appleide,

I'm fine mate, been away on a PC job for what seems like ever. I'm working on a big commission for a hotel chain, I'm writing the office software and integrating it with the web sites (which I'm also designing). It's DULL! They're running Windoze servers and I'm doing the client side in VisBas on Vista (SHOOT ME NOW!! Arrgggghhhhhh.....!). I go days without even seeing a Mac, but luckily I have my trusty iPod Touch to keep me sane.

I really should just log in and say Hi. TNT2 has obviously taken a bit of a back seat since Christmas, but it is still going, I play with it when I can, but I don't have the same time to commit to it as I did a few months ago. I have upgraded my MacBook to Leopard and installed the Developer tools (my iBook still runs 10.4 though) and I'm looking towards the Obj-C version of the engine. The editor is still in RB and is coming along well. I must get in and post, but if you want to 'cut and paste' this to the forums then by all means go for it. You will probably have more time than me.

Thanks for mailing, and reminding me that I have other commitments ;) I tend to get very focussed on a particular project, and at the moment it's the one that will make me the most money, a harsh reality I'm afraid, especially when you have eight kids, but a reality all the same.

I've not forgotten TNT, I've done a lot of work on this and I'll continue to do so, but unfortunately (like Mark and John before me) 'real life' comes before hobbies and interests. Remember when I said that 'Open Source' was not the answer? If TNT was to be a commercial venture we'd be on TNT3D by now...

Anyway, thanks again for the mail and I will see you all again soon...

'Till next time...

Danny (nod the mod)

02-24-2008 11:59

Posted by:
Jacob

Location:
San Francisco, CA

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Thanks for posting it :)

02-24-2008 16:37

Posted by:
Maxime

Location:
Paris France

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Hurrah, THT is alive

Thank you to post. Since that time, I was afraid that TNT was abandonned, it would have been sad. For the general (and generous) idea, and because I did some work to translate my C Programm in TNT basic.
I was afraid the learning hours would be lost !
I understand you have to work (I mean in real life...), just post from time to time to tell us the story is not finished !
Thanks again :)

02-24-2008 20:11

Posted by:
swagIT

Location:
Great Wet North (Vancouver)

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I agree with Danny - I think keeping it commercial would have been a much better solution..... Hell if I could I would even Donate some $$$$ at least as much as I've made from donations for Dinky Dungeon (not a ton - but something at least). I really don't want to see TNT fade away....

02-25-2008 21:13

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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I don't think anyone knows, but was TNT financially viable? Of course without numbers no one can tell, I was just under the general impression that TNT didn't have enough users to make selling it really profitable (and in any case it certainly doesn't now, but of course with a new well-maintained version it could increase)

still, no code released so licensed can still be changed ;) I just liked the open-source idea because i didn't believe anyone could make a living selling TNT

02-25-2008 23:45

Posted by:
swagIT

Location:
Great Wet North (Vancouver)

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Hi Someone - I see your point - but I don't think it necessarily is about making a living - but more about motivation.

I have been self employed for years and I find it easier to justify applying myself and my time to something that contributes to my living yet isn't necessarily my main income. I have smaller side projects that consistently generate a few thousand a year - I don't mind re-investing 15 hours or so every month and can justify to myself that at least I'm pulling in 20 bucks an hour doing something that interests me.

Just my two cents worth......

02-26-2008 01:21

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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swagIT : well you're right, I get your point too :)

mark released TNT as open-source because he didn't have time anymore to work on it, thus enabling others to continue the job. of course this doesn't quite apply to a full rewrite. In the end it will be Danny's choice (and to be quite honest, I don't care so much since I don't use TNT myself anymore for ages ;) my brothers do, though. however if TNT2 needs to be bought I think it's unlikely I will buy it)

02-28-2008 16:46

Posted by:
Maxime

Location:
Paris France

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To pay or not to pay

It depends about people. I personnally think that the most rewarding for an author is to receive compliments and thanks, not money. The so many people who create a web-site just do that to receive answers, questions and congratulations from the readers (and to count them, which is a mesure of the success...).
BUT, it depends on us to answer the effort by feeding this site to show that Mike was not claiming in the desert...
I'll do my best...

02-28-2008 21:35

Posted by:
Jacob

Location:
San Francisco, CA

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I'm sure Danny has no intentions on making it shareware again :)
Although he should add a little donation button on blog or something for those who really want to show thanks...

02-29-2008 08:38

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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Hi Guys...

Just dropeed by on my way to 'The Office' (the dusty chair in the corner with a PC in front of it)...

TNT2 is still alive and in development, but as appleide quoted in my mail, I've got a PC job on at the moment that requires me to do a lot of corresponding with my clients, and a fair bit of travelling... To Wales if you please (if you don't know where that is I don't blame you, it's an over rated place and only really counts as a separate country because they speak funny! They also have an abnormal number of sheep... Need I say more?)!

Re: The License for TNT, I've not really thought that far ahead yet. I know that Mark said TNT was not viable as a 'second income', but one of the reasons I came in in the first place was to help to market it.
I think the original package 'felt' like a shareware program, it was, by Mark's own admission, an unfinished project and was seriously in need of a bit of spit and polish. I also think that my call to keep the source closed was also the right one, opening it up (and Mark backing off) effectively killed it in its tracks.
I am looking to make TNT a professional looking, well designed and comprehensive package. I intend to extend the functionality through a plug in architecture and to provide quality, on-going support. All of this takes time and commitment, and while financial gain is not my motivation here, I wouldn't say no to the odd 'sheckle' every now and again.

I'd like to think that if TNT2 works out as well as I hope it will, then we could at least give the people at Blitz Basic the odd sleepless night!

Now, if you are worried about having to cough up for this, DON'T. I have no plans (now, or in the future, whatever the license) to charge 'The Legions' of existing TNT users, and I know where both of you live!

Well, it was nice to be back, if somewhat temporarily. I hope this has answered some of your questions and I'll try and drop by a bit more often, and keep you all a bit more 'in the frame' with regard to the progress of the TNT2 project. Unfortunately, after a day in the saddle, the last thing I want to do at the moment is jump back on another horse, albeit a far nicer looking, faster, more reliable beast that doesn't keep stopping to chew the grass...

"Stay frosty" guys, 'Till next time...

Danny (nod the mod)

03-05-2008 01:26

Posted by:
Pokoleo

Location:
on my computer

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income...

I hope that you know that there is at least one school (or more) that uses tnt... it isn't dieing, it's made it's way into the curriculum... think about that.

03-05-2008 08:15

Posted by:
allnodcoms

Location:
hertfordshire (England)

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WOW...

I don't know what's more impressive, that there's a school using TNT to teach programming, or that there's a school that use Macs! ;)

I have dealt with academic queries in the past, teachers asking whether I felt that TNT was suitable as a learning tool, but I never heard any more. It's great to think that TNT is helping a whole new generation of programmers to take their first steps on the software ladder. Thanks for the post, I'd love to know more.

As the sole TNT developer, I don't think TNT is dying, it's just pupating... Watch this twig!

'Till next time...

Danny (nod the mod)

03-09-2008 09:21

Posted by:
Maxime

Location:
Paris France

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Paying or not

For history, while browsing with ResEdit, I found that note (Res 138 within DITL), which apparently is not new ! I didn't find when it is called :

"This is just a friendly note to remind you that TNT Basic is shareware.
If you like it, please show your support by registering; see the read me file for more information!"

03-11-2008 13:08

Posted by:
Jacob

Location:
San Francisco, CA

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TNT Basic used to be $20 if you wanted to build your game, but now it's free and open source.

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