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06-11-2006 21:25

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I've finally got TNT Basic completely compiled and linked as a universal binary in XCode - yay!

Of course it doesn't work properly yet, but that's just a matter of debugging it and finding out how its internals have been messed up, but it's a big step in the right direction.

I've ran a couple of examples through the PPC version with varying degrees of success, the x86 version is a bit crashy at the moment, but it should be pretty straight-forward to fix.

I'll probably check in what I've done so far to sourceforge, although it wouldn't be useful to people until the above issues are resolved, but at least it will be out there in some form.

I expect Hieroglyph is going to be considerably more difficult to port, especially with all its plug ins and libraries that it links to, I've not even looked at that yet.

Mark

06-11-2006 21:43

Posted by:
swagIT

Location:
Great Wet North (Vancouver)

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Bravo - sounds somewhat daunting -thanks for the effort!

06-11-2006 23:38

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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great news!!

about hieroglyph... would a full rewrite be a better thing? the actual app is (as far as i know, of course, you're the main developer!) limited, based on CodeWarrior stuff - and it has often been critised... i dunno, what do you think about it?

06-12-2006 01:02

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I think rewriting Hieroglyph would be a rather large amount of work, however it's definitely a 'third party developer opportunity' (as Apple would say ;). I'm certainly not going to be rewriting it in a hurry, but it would be fairly easy for someone to make their own editor as a separate open source project. My aim is to get TNT Basic so developers can work on it via the easiest route possible, and that is porting Hieroglyph rather than rewriting it.

On another note, all my changes to get TNT Basic compiling under XCode are now on sourceforge.

WAIT!
It's not finished and it basically doesn't work properly. So don't think you can do anything useful with it other than peruse the project and try and see how it fits together. It can only run a couple of examples and it goes wrong quite a lot. I'm pretty sure you couldn't run a game in it yet. I would advise everyone to wait until these problems are ironed out a bit before diving in.

The README that's distributed with the source contains instructions on how to get it to compile in XCode, you need to get PowerPlant and OpenPlay source code AND make modifications to both of them to get THEM to compile in XCode, so it's not for the faint of heart.

But, it's there, it compiles, links and runs as a Universal Binary and things can only get better from here.

Watch this space.

Mark

06-12-2006 23:57

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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well i'm always ready to help... i have less experience but a lot of time to spend on it! i'm not going to dive in a hurry in stuff but i'm really willing to help if it's needed

06-13-2006 19:10

Posted by:
Jason Anderson

Location:
Doylestown, PA

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I look forward to seeing a newly built (Hopefully quite a bit faster and better at keeping the framerate the same throughout the game) TNT Basic hopefully very soon.

All I ask is that math calculations are done much faster.

06-18-2006 21:23

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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>
On another note, all my changes to get TNT Basic compiling under XCode are now on sourceforge.
>

i tried getting it from CVS... it's weird, i'm doing exactly as i had previously done to get TNT sources previously, but the server doesn't answer, and i've tried several different days...

>
I think rewriting Hieroglyph would be a rather large amount of work, however it's definitely a 'third party developer opportunity' (as Apple would say ;). I'm certainly not going to be rewriting it in a hurry, but it would be fairly easy for someone to make their own editor as a separate open source project.
>

I just tried building a sample app that would try to load a TB project from file, just to see how it goes (don't worry i'm not starting things i a hurry, just doing small tests ;) i just quickly ran across the problem that everything uses mac resources... these formats are not documented anywhere, nor supported by any third-party libs, only apple stuff supports it

i tried loading with Cocoa... PICT images were marked as legacy stuff

i could get code loading PNGs, TGAs, JPGs, GIFs, etc. but PICTs wouldn't work, even though the documentation stated they should... i'm no Cocoa pro, but when Apple marks something 'legacy' it's because they don't want people to use it and certainly won't help them doing so... do you think we should get rid of these resources (PICT and SND)?

06-22-2006 23:33

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I wouldn't bother trying to get a Cocoa app to work with the TB projects saved in the Mac resource format, you'll have a lot more luck with the newer .tbproj format files. These are just folders full of files, the PICTs in there are directly readable by paint programs, quicktime and the rest of the Cocoa API.

I've not checked the SND files, but they should work also.

Feel free to experiment with a Hieroglyph replacement by all means, I'll offer whatever help I can, but I can't commit to doing any code on it.

As for the CVS thing, the checkout instructions have changed on sourceforge.net as they've restructured their CVS servers. Follow the updated instructions here, I'd just nuke your previous checkout and start over to be honest.

Cheers,

Mark

06-22-2006 23:55

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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yes, i was indeed trying with the .tbproj thing... what i was saying is that apple wants to get rid of the PICT and SND formats. at least that's what i read on some website (but different websites contradict themselves... i don't knwo which one to believe) all i know is that PICT can be vectorial... no need for that in TNT

Cocoa apis loading PICTs are marked as 'legacy' - it's even written somewhere in Cocoa that PICT images might not render correctly (!) . that seems to prove apple wants to drop them

i have a very limited cocoa knowledge, but as i said i could succesfully load all image formats except PICT. maybe with Carbon it'd work better but someone else would need to do it cause i have no Carbon knowledge.

06-23-2006 12:47

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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by searching a bit i found Carbon code that seems to work just fine... good thing

though if you want someone else to make a hieroglyph replacement, you should explain a bit how it stores maps, banks, and how it communicates with TNT Basic itself

06-26-2006 16:37

Posted by:
DanLurie

Location:
Earth>USA>New Jersey>Clifton>My Chair

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I think the map editor was one of, if not my favorite parts of TNT. I'd love to see the map format specs.

06-27-2006 19:58

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I think you're right about Apple deprecating the PICT and SND file formats, it would be fairly straight forward to add support for other image types to TNT/Hieroglyph. Probably the easiest way would be to make a new image type called 'Imge' or something that could contain any image type just based of its file extension, then load the image through the QuickTime API. Same for sound files.

As for the TMAP specs, I can't remember them off the top of my head, but all the source code to read and write them are in the TNT Map classes on sourceforge here. I would say it would be sensible for anyone who is seeking to reimplement Hieroglyph to at least peruse the source code so they can extract these resource formats.

Cheers

Mark

06-27-2006 23:36

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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good thing

anyone interested in making som hieroglyph stuff? personnally i gave up my little test because Software Update just installed a 10.4-only quicktime version on my 10.3 computer AND I CAN'T PROGRAM WITH IT ANYMORE!!! I'm really beginning to hate Apple now... (though if TNT was modified to use other formats than PICT and SND i could do it with third-party libs)

07-20-2006 23:33

Posted by:
Jacob

Location:
San Francisco, CA

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What happens from here?

07-20-2006 23:51

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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well i guess we wait on Mark :/

right now i can't do anything... he's building an XCode 2 project, and i only have XCode 1 so i can't really try to help...

apart from that i haven't seen any other developers interested in working on TNT lately! i'd like to see someone else than me interested about this!

07-23-2006 21:54

Posted by:
Jacob

Location:
San Francisco, CA

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I could help if I had XCode. There are wany changes I'd like to make (ex. make TNT Basic run in an OpenGL view, making the game run faster).

I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.8.
Once I upgrage you can count on me to help.

07-23-2006 23:51

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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great i didn't know you were doing C/C++!

just a shame no one can work on it because not having XCode 2!

I'm not sure i'm updating soon (don't have money, and GCC 4 breaks compatibility with some libs i use all the time)

and right now i don't have the courage to try setting up an XCode 1 project or a makefile myself... learning about technologies that you don't know about while trying to get them to work isn't kinda easy ;)

08-15-2006 19:02

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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Mark? Is something going on with TNT? It's been months since your last message...

08-27-2006 03:25

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I'm not actively working on it at the moment. I'll post if I do move onto it and finish porting the project. Everything I've done so far is on sourceforge.

Cheers,

Mark

08-29-2006 21:19

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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I perfectly understand you might lack time/interest

Though this pretty much means TNT is dead

08-30-2006 19:11

Posted by:
DanLurie

Location:
Earth>USA>New Jersey>Clifton>My Chair

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As long as the source is available, its not dead.

Danny was working on it too, no?

08-30-2006 23:33

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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> As long as the source is available, its not dead.

Virtually no, but a project without leader never progresses much...

Well i don't know if Danny is working on it, but he hasn't posted for months, and the CVS hasn't been updated for months either

08-30-2006 23:51

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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Well i'm not trying to be pessimistic either! I'm just seeing that very little progress has been done in a long time

09-03-2006 14:16

Posted by:
DanLurie

Location:
Earth>USA>New Jersey>Clifton>My Chair

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Well then, with a team of effectively 1 person, I'd say its moving rather quickly...all things considered.

09-11-2006 21:37

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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I'd like to think it isn't dead.

I don't work on it as much as I used to, but that's why I open sourced it. I know that's not a solution, but it enables solutions that don't necessarily involve me. Next time I do a batch of work on TNT, the first thing I'll do is finish the port if someone else hasn't got in there first. Meanwhile if someone else does start work on it, I will give them all the help they need to get it moving, including helping them finish the porting.

Whilst people are still using it and getting better at programming it's still alive. I wouldn't be surprised if in a years time there's people from this very board working on the TNT source code - now that would be cool.

Mark

09-11-2006 23:21

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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Indeed that would be cool, and if you can get it working i'm in ;) i tried building it once, but had problems with OpenPlay. Well i din't try much either - i'm not bad at coding, but getting someone else's stuff to build is my biggest weakness

09-13-2006 23:41

Posted by:
Mark Tully

Location:
TNT HQ, England

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Yeah I know, I hit the OpenPlay thing too. I don't think it would take too long to get it working but it's still a bit of a pain. It doesn't look like it's exactly well supported. Ideally modules like that need replacing with more up to date OS X savvy software. Same goes for the input stuff that fell by the wayside when Apple dropped InputSprocket. That's the problem with Apple's technology pace, you have to stay on your toes to keep up!

If I do any further work on it I'll be posting here.

Mark

09-24-2006 01:11

Posted by:
someone

Location:
Quebec ( Canada )

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I upgraded to Mac OS 10.4 and i now have XCode 2. So i tried giving a look at the TNT Basic project in the CVS... but it seems like 75% of the files use an absolute path (searching for a 'mark' user) and so the project is unusable on other computers than Mark's without important changes

09-26-2006 12:08

Posted by:
appleide

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:(

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